NATALIA GUMENYUK AND
ANGELINA KARIAKINA PODCAST
These are casual conversations with world intellectuals about Ukraine and Ukrainians during the war. Every week, Ukrainian journalists Natalya Gumenyuk and Angelina Karyakina talk with their guests about how the country is opening up to the world and together they reflect on the tectonic shifts in the middle of Ukraine and how the war against Ukraine is changing the world.
SUBSCRIBE AND LISTEN ON YOUR CONVENIENT PLATFORM
American journalist Franklin Foer has spent years observing the workings of the Democratic Party. In 2023, he published the book The Last Politician: Inside Joe Biden’s White House and the Struggle for America’s Future. The book delves into the internal dynamics of Biden's first two years in office. It has been recommended to those seeking to understand the 46th President of the United States and his actions.
Foer argues that Joe Biden has become increasingly isolated from the rest of the world. Recently, he has been surrounded only by his family and closest advisors, who blindly believed in his ability to win the next election. This, according to Foer, prevented Biden from withdrawing his candidacy in time, leaving the Democrats with insufficient time to select another candidate. One of Biden’s most controversial decisions, which may cast a shadow over his presidency, was the pardon of his son, Hunter Biden.
However, Foer's interests extend beyond the Democrats. He is also fascinated by Silicon Valley leaders, how they think, and the potential threats posed by major technological breakthroughs. Foer believes that Silicon Valley billionaires are currently rallying around Trump to pursue their dreams, eliminate competitors, and secure funding for their projects, such as the colonization of Mars.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk discusses with Franklin Foer how the Democrats are handling their defeat, what their strategies might be before handing over power to the Republicans, the current composition of Trump’s team and its eccentric members, the lengths Silicon Valley billionaires are willing to go to, and the parallels between Elon Musk and Rinat Akhmetov.
The original audio
Episode 54: Maksym Butkevych the Call Sign "Moses," Captivity as a Realm of Constant Pressure, and the Joy of Being True to Oneself
In October 2024, human rights defender and journalist Maksym Butkevych was freed through a prisoner exchange after spending over two years in Russian captivity. Long before his detention, Butkevych had dedicated years to defending political prisoners and advocating for their release. Now, he jokingly refers to his own captivity as a "practical exercise" in understanding what political prisoners endure firsthand. Butkevych describes the Russian approach to prisoners as being driven not by the logic of war, but by the mindset of slave traders. Captives are treated as commodities. He explains that for most people in captivity, the primary goal is to preserve their physical and mental health. Looking forward, Butkevych plans to focus his efforts on freeing as many Ukrainian servicemembers and civilians as possible from detention.
In an interview with journalist Angelina Kariakina, Maksym Butkevych discusses what he observed about Ukraine and its society during his two-year absence, who gave him the call sign "Moses," whether public figures should maintain silence when captured, and how military personnel should be prepared for the possibility of captivity.
Episode 53: South Africa Has a lot of Nostalgia for the Soviet Union. Russian Propaganda Uses It | Mondli Makhanya
Mondli Makhanya is one of South Africa's leading editors. He began his career as a journalist in 1990, the year Nelson Mandela was released from prison after nearly 30 years of incarceration. This marked the end of apartheid in South Africa and the beginning of democratic changes in the country. However, until 1994, the threat of civil war in South Africa remained very real. Some people fought for equal rights and freedoms for the Black population, others clung to segregation and the dominance of racist ideologies, and some even dreamed of restoring the Zulu kingdom in these territories.
As a reporter, Mondli Makhanya documented the emergence of democratic South Africa. He had the opportunity to closely observe anti-apartheid activists who had once been his idols. However, up close, he realized that some of them were not as honest and virtuous as he had believed. Despite many challenges, compromises, and lengthy negotiations, South Africa elected its first Black president, Nelson Mandela, in 1994. Mandela focused his efforts on forging a unified nation from the diverse South African populace.
Over the following decades, Makhanya witnessed both the country's prosperity and its decline, as well as its return to prominence among Africa's leading nations. He describes Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine as aggression and is convinced that modern Russia is the complete antithesis of South Africa’s democratic values. Among the Russian war crimes, the abduction of Ukrainian children shocked him the most. His 2023 visit to Ukraine was met with mixed reactions back home, with some urging the journalist to visit Moscow and give the other side a platform as well.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with Mondli Makhanya about his childhood during apartheid, why South Africans feel nostalgic about the Soviet Union and how Russian propaganda exploits this, how Ukraine can share its story with the Global South, and how South Africans view Elon Musk, who is of South African origin.
The original audio
Episode 52: I Am More Than My Trauma | Tetiana Troshchynska
Journalist Tetiana Troshchynska lost her 18-year-old son Taras to cancer in 2023. Following this, she launched the podcast "Love Does Not Fade" to explore how people cope with the loss of their loved ones. However, Tetiana does not want to be defined solely as a mother who talks about the death of her son. She had accomplishments before this tragedy and continues to achieve and work afterward.
Tetiana firmly believes that loss does not automatically make anyone a better person. But each new day of life demands immense self-work. If a person strives to find meaning in their daily life and work routine, disregards trivialities, and sees the bigger picture, they transform. “The meaning of life after loss is shaped by memory,” she says.
Journalist Angelina Kariakina speaks with Tetiana Troshchynska about the ups and downs of life with loss, societal perceptions that hinder grieving, how Ukrainian society is changing due to the vast number of deaths during the war, the impact of social media posts featuring images of murdered children, and the importance of forgiving oneself for not always being able to find the right words to support someone experiencing loss.
Episode 51: Musk and Orbán Could Serve as Channels of Communication Between Trump and the Kremlin | Natalia Gumenyuk
Donald Trump has become the 47th president of the United States. He secured 312 electoral votes, while his opponent Kamala Harris received 226. Trump won against the Democratic candidate in all seven key swing states. The inauguration of the new president will take place in January 2025. Trump has already begun selecting members for his upcoming administration. American media reports suggest that billionaire Elon Musk is influencing Trump’s personnel choices, recommending candidates for various positions. Musk was also present during a recent phone call between Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
During his campaign, Trump repeatedly stated that he could end the war between Russia and Ukraine "in a single day." Elon Musk might become a channel of communication between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. Recent information indicates that the billionaire has been in regular contact with Putin since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
Journalist Angelina Kariakina talks with Natalia Humeniuk about the risks for Ukraine posed by new figures in Trump’s team, what Ukrainians can already expect from him, strategies for engaging with the new U.S. president, and the importance of getting the most out of the Democrats in the coming month.
Episode 50: All Hopes of Ukrainians Who Want the Democrats to Win Lie with African Americans | Natalia Gumenyuk
Almost 80 million Americans took advantage of early voting before November 5, the main election day for the U.S. president. Among them are current U.S. President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris. Donald Trump is skeptical of early voting, but he has already told reporters that he hopes to declare victory on election day, even though the final results may only be known after a few days, especially if both camps demand a recount in certain key or so-called swing states. It’s expected that voting in these regions will decide the election outcome. This year, there are seven such states: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
The Democrats are preparing a response plan should Trump prematurely declare victory, as he did in 2020. Back then, Trump declared himself the winner early in the morning after election day, three days before the first TV channels announced the results. The Democrats plan to flood social media and broadcasts with calls for calm and patience during the vote count. Meanwhile, in some U.S. states, National Guard units are on standby to quickly respond to any unrest during the presidential election.
On the final day before the election, Kamala Harris will be in Pennsylvania. Donald Trump will also make an appearance in Pennsylvania and plans to visit North Carolina and Michigan.
Host Angelina Kariakina talks with journalist Natalia Gumenyuk about the country's condition and mood in the U.S. on the eve of the main voting day, views on Harris in her hometown of Oakland, J.D. Vance, “the kindest person,” and who Ukrainians should be hoping for.
Episode 49: At the Trump rally I attended, he didn’t mention Ukraine once | Nataliya Gumenyuk
A week before the U.S. elections, presidential candidates Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are targeting different groups of voters. At this stage, they are no longer trying to persuade everyone. Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk, who is currently in the U.S. observing the presidential race in person, notes that the strategies of the two camps are distinct. For Trump, it’s about attracting as many young men as possible, who typically don’t turn out to vote, using extreme rhetoric. For Kamala Harris, it’s about appealing to women, likely Republicans, who don’t like Trump. At rallies across various American cities, Donald Trump often indulges in self-praise, mocks his opponent, talks about the economy, and constantly scares Americans with the threat of migrants. Harris, in similar speeches, defends women’s reproductive rights, including the right to abortion, and speaks about the threat of dictatorship if Trump comes to power. “This campaign is about turnout this time—whether people who are already convinced or somewhat disillusioned or with low expectations will come out,” says the journalist.
Host Angelina Kariakina talks with Nataliya Gumenyuk about the mood in the U.S. a week before the election, who attends the candidates’ rallies, Trump’s fascist rhetoric, lines exclusively at men’s restrooms at his events, what Kamala Harris lacks, and the feeling of apathy in Washington and New York.
Episode 48: We could see a lot of violence in the aftermath of this American election | Christian Caryl
On November 5, 2024, the U.S. presidential election will take place. The Republican candidate for this office is Donald Trump. A few years ago, his participation in the presidential race was in question following the storming of the Capitol on January 6, 2021, just before the certification of the previous election results in each state. Many Republicans prefer not to recall this incident. Nevertheless, in July 2024, Trump became the sole candidate for U.S. president from the Republican Party. He was expected to face the current president, Joe Biden, from the Democratic Party. However, in June, after an unsuccessful debate with Trump, donors and Democratic leaders began pressuring Biden to withdraw his candidacy. Nearly a month later, Biden stepped out of the race. At the end of August, Vice President Kamala Harris officially became the Democratic Party’s candidate for U.S. president.
A few weeks before the election, Trump and Harris are nearly tied. Both candidates are working hard to mobilize their voters. Harris is focusing on moderate Republicans and Black men, adjusting her strategy and drawing on her prosecutorial experience. Trump is appearing in interviews with influencers and on streaming platforms. At the same time, his team is already carefully preparing to challenge the election results in various states in court.
Nataliya Gumenyuk speaks with American journalist Christian Caryl about whether Trump is truly a threat, what Ukraine can expect from him, what Kamala Harris’s policy on Ukraine might be, Trump’s affection for dictators, why Harris may fare better than Hillary Clinton, and the key challenges facing the candidates vying for the White House for the next four years.
The original audio
Episode 47: There is no any Single Word from Georgian Government that Russia is an Enemy | Nino Zhizhilashvili
Nino Zhizhilashvili is one of Georgia’s leading political journalists and hosts. In her nearly 30-year career, she has never worked for pro-government media and has always chosen channels where she can openly criticize the authorities. Due to her work, authority, and popularity in Georgia, she has had multiple opportunities to transition into politics. However, she does not understand journalists who make such a transition, and it doesn’t appeal to her. Zhizhilashvili, who is also the dean of the Caucasus Media School, chooses to remain in the profession to keep those in power in check.
On October 26, parliamentary elections will be held in Georgia, and according to the journalist, this is an existential moment for the Georgian state. Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine has fully revealed the pro-Russian stance of the Georgian government and the head of the ruling party "Georgian Dream," oligarch Bidzina Ivanishvili, who controls everything in the country. In its election campaign, "Georgian Dream" exploits the war in Ukraine, claiming that only they can guarantee peace in the country. They also promise to conduct a trial similar to the Nuremberg trials against former Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, accusing him of allegedly starting the war in Georgia in 2008.
The ruling party's campaign rhetoric hasn’t been without conspiracy theories about the global "party of war" and attacks on the LGBTQ+ community to prevent "Western values" from infiltrating traditional Georgian society. Russia does not hide its positive attitude toward Ivanishvili, openly praising his recent actions.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk speaks with Nino Zhizhilashvili about how the current Georgian government has revealed its pro-Russian essence, who supports "Georgian Dream" within the country, Georgian protests against Russian-style laws, the opposition and Mikheil Saakashvili’s role in it, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, election conspiracies, and whom she places her hopes on for the future of her country.
The original audio
Episode 46: Ukraine Can Teach Us that We Need to Be Prepared for New Type of Heroism | Carl Henrik Fredriksson
After Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, in the spring of 2022 Finland and Sweden applied for NATO membership. A year later, Finland officially became a member of the North Atlantic Alliance, and in 2024, Sweden obtained the same status. Swedish writer and journalist Carl Henrik Fredriksson notes that Finland and Sweden have historically been closely linked, particularly on defense matters. As small states, Scandinavian countries rely on a global order meant to protect and guarantee their freedom and integrity. However, since 2014—following the annexation of Crimea and the start of the war in Ukraine—the post-Cold War global order no longer exists. Russia's full-scale aggression against Ukraine was the final catalyst for this shift. According to Fredriksson, Finland went through an internal transformation regarding NATO membership much faster than Sweden. “When Finland makes this move, Sweden has no choice; it can no longer remain neutral, whether it wants to or not. Sweden’s decision to join NATO has less to do with Sweden itself and more to do with Finland,” says Fredriksson, Programme director of Debates on Europe. He recalls that over ten years ago, both countries and their societies responded weakly to military assessments, which revealed their inability to defend themselves for even a week in case of an attack.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk speaks with Carl Henrik Fredriksson about why Scandinavian countries have become some of Ukraine's strongest allies, how Ukrainian heroism is perceived in peaceful Europe, the skepticism in Northern Europe toward former Eastern Bloc countries, Swedish neutrality, and the role of utopia in the modern world.
The original audio
Episode 45: Zaynap Gashaeva on the Wars in Chechnya, Their Similarity to Russia's Aggression Against Ukraine, and the Chechen Archive
Before the First Chechen War, which the Russian authorities called an "operation to restore constitutional order in Chechnya," Zaynap Gashaeva and her husband were running a business in Moscow. At the end of 1994, the situation in Chechnya worsened, and she traveled to Grozny to evacuate her relatives. After surviving the first bombings by Russian aviation, Zaynap managed to return to Moscow with her elderly mother. Following this trip, Gashaeva abandoned her business and began actively participating in anti-war marches and engaging in human rights work. She initially recorded the testimonies of Chechens who had survived Russian military purges, which involved the brutal killing of civilians, by writing them down in a notebook. Later, she and her colleagues started recording interviews on a video camera. According to Zaynap, she had about 200 video tapes from the First Chechen War, containing accounts of Russian soldiers' crimes, and another 100 from the Second Chechen War. Initially, she hid these tapes carefully in Chechnya, but later managed to transport them to Switzerland, where the information was digitized over many years. Gashaeva was also forced to leave Chechnya permanently. She now lives in Switzerland, where she preserves the Chechen archive for a future tribunal on Russia's actions during the Chechen wars, which she hopes will happen one day.
Journalist Angelina Kariakina speaks with Zaynap Gashaeva about her Chechen archive, what she witnessed during the two wars in Chechnya, the parallels with Russia's war in Ukraine, and the earrings she needs to return to the mother of a 19-year-old girl who was burned by Russian soldiers during a purge nearly 30 years ago.
The Reckoning Project: Ukraine Testifies report on the parallels between Russia's wars in Chechnya, Syria, and Ukraine can be found at the following link.
Episode 44: Regaining a Sense of Control, Legalizing Crying and Resilience as a Process | Gavin Rees
Gavin Rees is a trauma expert and the Senior Advisor for Training and Innovation at the Dart Center for Journalism and Trauma. For many years, he has worked with groups on trauma prevention, resilience building, and conducted training sessions for journalists and documentary filmmakers on how to properly conduct interviews with people who have experienced traumatic events. To get someone to open up, you need to create an environment and atmosphere during the conversation where they feel respected and want to share their experiences willingly. If the person in front of you is a friend or relative, you will be interacting with them not as a journalist. Gavin Rees reminds us that the same principle applies here—you should not force others to talk. Sometimes you may feel that your loved one absolutely needs to talk to relieve their emotional burden and painful memories. But some people prefer not to talk. Therefore, you must always leave the choice to the person whether to share their experience or not.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks with Gavin Rees about the nature of trauma and the necessity of regaining a sense of control for a person after a difficult experience, resilience as an acquired trait, whether all Ukrainians are traumatized, how to avoid comparing tragedies, and the biggest mistake when communicating with someone who is grieving.
The original audio
Episode 43: If We Hate, We Become Like the Russians | Archbishop Borys Gudziak
Borys Gudziak is the Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Philadelphia Metropolis of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and the president of the Ukrainian Catholic University. He believes that, in the United States, for the majority of Americans, there is no moral dilemma about who is right in the Russian-Ukrainian war. This clear understanding has become the main reason for the unification of many people around supporting Ukraine. Now, the stage has come to move from very general, black-and-white assessments to specifics, telling individual stories of Russian aggression to reach the level of personal experience. Gudziak also communicates with American politicians from various circles. For example, he met with Republican vice-presidential candidate J.D. Vance. The statements of former President Donald Trump's running mate reflect some of the most radical positions among politicians in Washington regarding stopping aid to Ukraine and freezing the conflict. Gudziak described his meeting with Vance as unproductive. However, Vance is an influential politician, and if Trump is elected as the next U.S. president, his influence will grow. Therefore, according to the archbishop, Ukrainians must help Vance understand the reality. Gudziak also recommends avoiding a position of resentment in communications with the Pope, who, twice a week, in his sermons, mentions the suffering of Ukrainians and asks for solidarity with them.
Journalist Natalia Humeniuk talks with Archbishop Borys Gudziak about his impressions from his trip to southern and eastern Ukraine, what the Pope might not understand, Ukraine’s inevitable proximity to Russia, the trauma of war, and the impossibility of coexistence between hatred and peace.
Episode 42: Ukraine Is Very Good at Maintaining Islands of Normalcy Amid This Abnormality - Roman Waschuk
Roman Waschuk is a former Canadian diplomat and, since 2022, a business ombudsman in Ukraine. He observes that in the past ten years, the level of petty corruption in Ukraine has decreased. However, the issue of manual control in fiscal structures persists. A country moving toward the European Union needs to break away from the tradition of a personalized approach to power, where public funds are managed through manual control. He also believes that civil servants should be given more freedom and space to make the necessary decisions for the country's recovery. Ukrainian officials constantly worry that their signatures may one day lead to criminal charges against them. Reflecting on his own experience working in various embassies and government institutions in Canada, Waschuk says that his main fear was making a mistake that could be destructive to his projects. However, neither he nor any other Canadian civil servant ever feared being jailed for their decisions. In contrast, Ukrainian civil servants worry about this all the time.
Natalia Humeniuk speaks with Roman Waschuk about business in Ukraine during the war, the need to compensate Ukrainians for giving up shadow schemes, economic safeguarding, the possibility of increasing Canadian support for Ukraine, the Ukrainian diaspora in Canada, and maintaining normalcy in the country during a full-scale invasion.
Episode 41: Oksana Karpovych on the film "Peaceful People" based on 31 hours of intercepted conversations of Russian soldiers.
The documentary film "Peaceful People" is being released in Ukrainian cinemas. Its director, Oksana Karpovych, personally listened to over 30 hours of intercepted private phone conversations between Russian soldiers and their relatives. These audio recordings are not classified; they were published on the official pages of Ukrainian intelligence services during the first year of the full-scale invasion. The conversations of the Russian soldiers are set against the backdrop of footage from the de-occupied territories of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, and Donetsk regions. The film does not show mutilated bodies, and the Russians themselves are only shown at the end of the film. According to Karpovych, the idea behind "Peaceful People" was to recreate a state of cognitive dissonance. "We did the Russians a certain favor by making this film. We created an honest portrait of them that they wouldn’t dare to make of themselves," the director says.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina talks with Oksana Karpovych about the hours-long conversations of Russian soldiers, what personally shocked her, what didn’t make it into the film, how the theme of looting could become a separate film, and what helped the director cope with her own emotions from what she saw and heard.
Episode 40: I don't believe there were many divisions in our society — Tymofiy Brik
Tymofiy Brik is a Ukrainian sociologist and the rector of the Kyiv School of Economics. He is confident that Ukrainian society is not as divided as the media portrays it. The memory of the Orange Revolution and maps that split the country into parts based on voting for different presidential candidates make many people biased. Often, people prefer to see divisions in everything. Brik provides an example with the question of joining NATO. Historically, part of Ukrainians supported joining the Alliance, while others opposed it. However, due to the change in context and the start of the large-scale war, most Ukrainians now support joining NATO. "Do you see these divisions? They were there yesterday, but today they aren't. The fact that public opinion is diverse is a sign of the diversity of our society. But that doesn’t mean it's a division," says the sociologist.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks with Tymofiy Brik about the risks for Ukrainian society and what could reduce the likelihood of internal conflicts, why he doesn’t expect social unrest after the law banning religious organizations connected with the Russian Orthodox Church is passed, and his skepticism regarding public opinion.
Episode 39: Rockets, Goats, and Military Technology: How North Korea Tries to Find a New Friend in Putin?
South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol has proposed creating a consultative group with North Korea to find ways to reduce tensions between the countries and restore economic cooperation. From the DPRK side, they expect only one thing - to start nuclear disarmament. Currently, relations between the states have become as tense as ever. At the beginning of 2024, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un called South Korea "the main enemy," stated that unification into a single Korea is impossible and terminated economic cooperation agreements with it.
The DPRK constantly launches garbage balloons into the territory of the Republic of Korea, shells the border of the neighboring state, and sends spy satellites. At the same time, North Korea continues to develop its nuclear program and military potential, for which it strengthens relations, in particular, with Russia. Moscow receives weapons from Pyongyang, including ballistic missiles, which it uses to strike Ukraine. As for North Korea, experts say about receiving various military technologies from Moscow.But that's not all. Russia sent the first batch of domestic animals - almost 500 goats - to the DPRK due to the lack of food in North Korea.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks to Seoul-based legal analyst Ethan Hee-Seok Shin about the weakening of ties between South Korea and North Korea, what exactly ensured the existence of the DPRK and the operation of the Gulag on its territory, the friendship of the DPRK with Russia, and how Koreans now feel about the Japanese who colonized Korea for 35 years.
The original audio
Episode 38: Maksym Ielihulashvili on Memory, Capturing Life, and Rediscovering Eastern and Southern Ukraine After Victory
Maksym Ielihulashvili is a dialogue facilitator, an expert at the Institute of Peace and Understanding, and a member of the human rights coalition "Ukraine 5 AM Coalition" He moderated public discussions organized by the "Public Interest Journalism Lab" in various regions of Ukraine this summer. For example, residents of Avdiivka discussed how they could identify themselves after the destruction and occupation of the city and where to begin its restoration. Residents of Yahidne in Chernihiv Oblast spoke about the memory of the Russian war crime in their village, the disturbing concept of a "tourist route" in Yahidne, and the necessity of naming all witnesses of those events as a form of memorialization. In the southern part of the country, town hall discussions focused on the challenges of perceiving collaborationism, who should be punished for cooperating with the aggressor country, and how the prosecutor's office and police should interact with survivors of war crimes and their relatives. After some of the discussions, Maksym Ielihulashvili's device, which tracks his body's physical indicators, showed readings as if he had just run 15 kilometers.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina talks with him about the symbols and objects on which destroyed cities and villages can be rebuilt, the search for small signs of memory of the war crime in the school basement in Yahidne, the trap of encapsulating oneself in one's pain, whether selling tomatoes to Russians at the market should be judged, and golden sneakers as a way to preserve one's vitality.
Episode 37: Several thousand Colombians are fighting on the side of Ukraine. Why?
Colombian journalist Catalina Gómez has been living in Tehran since 2007. She ended up in Iran due to her obsession with the Middle East. Her specialty is reporting on military conflicts in the region. She has written articles about the war in Syria and the Gaza Strip, the fight against ISIS in Iraq, and the bloody battle for Mosul. Gómez has also covered several presidential elections in Iran and the mass protests during the Green Revolution in Iran in 2009. When Russia started the war in Ukraine in 2014, Catalina did not come here.
She was unfamiliar with the region and was exclusively reporting on Syria and Iraq at the time. However, after the full-scale invasion, she regularly travels to the frontlines for reports and even partially resides in Kyiv. She compares her first month of living in the Ukrainian capital in May 2023 to "Star Wars." During that time, Russia launched missiles at Kyiv almost every night to detect and destroy air defense systems. In June 2023, the journalist survived a Russian missile strike on the "RIA" pizzeria in Kramatorsk. Her friend, Ukrainian writer Victoria Amelina, who was sitting at the same table with Catalina, was killed.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks with Catalina Gómez about how she returned to work after the death of Victoria Amelina, why Colombians come to fight in Ukraine, what Ukrainians can expect from the new president of Iran, and why Gabriel Garcia Marquez remains a prominent journalist for Latin America.
The original audio
Episode 36: What Are Ukrainians Afraid of and What Do They Hope for Regarding Military Service? Explained by a Sociologist
In Ukraine, mobilization is considered necessary but unjust. This is the data from a study conducted in March-April 2024, led by the Public Interest Journalism Lab in collaboration with the Kharkiv Institute of Sociological Research. This feeling often arises due to the inequality between the wealthy and the poor, where wealthier Ukrainians have a better chance of avoiding mobilization. Among other forms of injustice, respondents mentioned the disproportionate targeting of rural areas by Territorial Recruitment Centers (TRCs), the lack of accountability for "busification" of men, mobilizing people with health problems or disabilities, and sending untrained conscripts to the front lines. The director of the Kharkiv Institute of Sociological Research, sociologist Denys Kobzin, asserts that this situation is not unique. For instance, most modern U.S. presidents did not serve despite being eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War.
"It turned out that they all had certain diagnoses that exempted them from service, but these did not prevent them from later living comfortably and performing their duties," Kobzin notes. Both in the U.S. and the U.K., there were problems with mobilization during major wars in the 20th century. Various schemes to avoid conscription were already in place back then, including having children, education, and illnesses. To attract more people to the army, proper communication about this is necessary, says the sociologist.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina talks with Denys Kobzin about who can influence mobilization, whether the topic of mobilization is dividing Ukrainian society, what the civilian army is like, and the necessity of preparing for a future war with Russia, which could lead to the partial militarization of Ukraine.
Episode 35: How a Museum in Chile Was Created to Honor the Victims of Pinochet's Dictatorship, Which Remains Popular in the Country
September 11, 1973, marks a turning point in Chile's history. Military forces led by General Augusto Pinochet came to power, and the then-President of Chile, Salvador Allende, committed suicide. During the 17 years of dictatorship, thousands of Chileans were persecuted, exiled, imprisoned, tortured, killed, or disappeared without a trace. Specially established Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, which operated at different times after Pinochet's rule ended and he was arrested, estimated the number of dictatorship victims. More than three thousand people were killed or disappeared, and 38,000 went through numerous torture chambers.
Several commissions were headed by María Luisa Sepúlveda, who had to listen to thousands of stories from survivors or the relatives of the dead and missing. She became one of the co-founders of the Museum of Memory and Human Rights. The spacious building, spanning several thousand square meters, opened in the bohemian district of Yungay in Santiago in 2010. Sepúlveda believes that creating such museums requires respecting the dignity of survivors and victims. For these people, it is always difficult to confront their own history, and it is impossible to predict what might trigger them during exhibitions. "This space of memory, in my opinion, should be a space for commitment and understanding of what happened and that it cannot happen again," says the co-founder of the Museum of Memory and Human Rights in Chile.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with Sepúlveda about the stories she heard while working on the Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, why there is still no consensus in Chile about Pinochet, how to properly organize memory museums, and how to speak with survivors and the relatives of victims to avoid turning such spaces into cemeteries. The publication was made possible with the support of USAID - US Agency for International Development within the framework of the "Human Rights in Action" program, implemented by the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union
Episode 34: Fukuyama on Russia's vulnerabilities, a Korean-style armistice, the union of authoritarian countries
Francis Fukuyama is an American political scientist and philosopher, director of the Center on Democracy, Development and the Rule of Law at Stanford University. He sees Ukraine as having the greatest potential among post-Soviet countries to transition from communism to genuine democracy. Although after the collapse of the USSR he had similar hopes for Russia, it has since moved in the opposite direction and now joins a global alliance of authoritarian countries. According to Fukuyama's assessments, achieving a resolution to the Russia’s war in Ukraine through negotiations in the near future is impossible. Just a year ago, the American political scientist advocated for Ukraine to be allowed to strike foreign weapons deep into Russian territory. "If you cannot strike at targets inside Russia, push back their military aircraft, and impose significantly greater costs and losses on them, they will never give up," Fukuyama says. Despite significant losses of soldiers and equipment, Russians are learning from their mistakes in this war. If Moscow prevails over Kyiv, it will embolden other authoritarian countries to implement dictatorship, repression, and territorial expansion.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks with Fukuyama about Russia's vulnerabilities, the Korean-style armistice, NATO's role in this, examples for Ukraine's reconstruction, combating societal polarization, and the foundation of the alliance of authoritarian countries.
The original audio
Episode 33: Healthy Nationalism Sees a Country's Wrongdoings in Its History — Jason Stanley
Jason Stanley is an American philosopher who is one of the world's leading left-wing intellectuals. His interests include fighting fascism, authoritarianism, anti-colonialism, propaganda, and freedom of speech. He is convinced that everyone fighting fascism should regularly visit Ukraine and see how Ukrainians are resisting fascist Russia. And he does just that. He is an Honorary Professor at the Kyiv School of Economics and comes to give lectures to Ukrainian students from time to time. He divides his salary for teaching in Ukraine between the "Come Back Alive" fund and supporting local civil society.
One of the most interesting things for him is to observe how the process of understanding who is Ukrainian and what Ukrainian identity should be is taking place in the country. By identity, he means the way people strive to organize their society and their self-awareness as a society. "If this (Russian-Ukrainian) war is only about whose folk dances are better and whose folk dances will win, then no one will be interested in it," says Stanley.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks to American philosopher about Russia's fascist and colonialist behavior, healthy nationalism, global leftists, Ukrainian student provocations, and how to explain the situation in Ukraine through the concepts of US civil rights movement theorist Du Bois.
The original audio
Episode 32: You use nuclear weapons when you're cornered like a rat. Putin thinks he's winning — Michael McFaul
Michael McFaul is a professor at Stanford University and an American diplomat. For five years, he's been working in the administration of Barack Obama. Initially, as a presidential assistant for national security affairs, and then from 2012 to 2014, as the U.S. Ambassador to Russia. By coincidence, he finished his work as ambassador in February 2014, the day Putin entered Crimea was the day he left Moscow. Michael McFaul believes that the right actions of the United States were when they tried for many years to engage with Russia to become a civilized state and to respect international rules and laws. "Our mistake was not this game. Our mistake was that we did not hedge our bets. What we should have done was to hedge our bets. What we should have done was to expand NATO as quickly and as far as possible when we had the opportunity to do so in the 1990s, and Russia couldn't do anything then," he is convinced.
One of his current areas of work is to reduce Putin's money for waging war in Ukraine. He coordinates an international group of independent experts proposing various sanctions against Russia. It is often called the "Yermak-McFaul group." He evaluates its work as excellent. However, the main problem is that the governments of other countries have not accepted all their ideas. If they had, Russia would now be in a much weaker position, McFaul believes.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks to Michael McFaul about the Biden administration and its work with Ukraine, American elections, what has changed in his attitude toward Russians, how sanctions reduce Putin's money, and why Barack Obama's voice is not heard now.
The original audio
Episode 31: Carolina Amoroso on the Pope, Milei, and how the rejection of violence defined Argentina's future
Carolina Amoroso is an Argentine international journalist. She first came to Ukraine at the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. As soon as she got here, she realized that she knew nothing about the country despite her thorough preparation for the trip. But even then, she understood that this war for Ukrainians is an existential one, a war for their own identity. In May 2024, Amoroso visited Ukraine for the fourth time, even cutting her honeymoon in Europe short for this purpose. In particular, she reported from the south of Ukraine on the lives of ordinary people. The journalist is sure that there is no fatigue from the stories of life in Ukraine among the international audience, it is present only in the media themselves.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks with Amoroso about the hypocrisy of human rights defenders in Latin America, the romanticization of Cuba, why the Pope remains a mystery to her, what to expect from Argentina's President Milei, and how political violence has become a thing of the past in her country. This publication is made possible by the support of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in the framework of the Human Rights in Action Program implemented by Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union.
The original audio
Episode 30: Israel is advancing on Rafah. How are the residents of Gaza surviving right now?
At the end of May 2024, the UN International Court ruled that Israel must immediately cease its advance on the city of Rafah in the Gaza Strip. Israel must also open access to the Gaza Strip and keep ground crossing points open, including the Rafah crossing point. Israel insists that it has the right to defend itself against the threat of Hamas and will continue the military operation it began in October 2023 after Hamas militants attacked. Meanwhile, a humanitarian catastrophe has unfolded in Gaza due to the siege.
Rock musician Raji el Jaru moved with his family from Gaza City to the southern part of the sector at the beginning of the Israeli military advance. Throughout this time, he has been trying to survive there and plans to start a crowdfunding campaign to raise money to leave the Gaza Strip. According to him, intermediaries are asking for about $5,000 to evacuate one person from there. Gaza journalist Ahmed Alnauk has been living in London for several years and runs a platform with stories of Palestinians called "We Are Not Numbers." At the end of October 2023, more than 20 members of his family were killed in an Israeli airstrike on their house.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina speaks with Raji el Jaru and Ahmed Alnauk about how civilians are surviving in Gaza now, their attitude towards Hamas after October 7, the music that can convey the stories of Palestinians, and their love for Gaza.
The original audio
Episode 29: Yaroslav Hrytsak on the temptation of authoritarianism, the bastards of Europe, and Ukraine's future golden age
Yaroslav Hrytsak is a Ukrainian historian, writer, and publicist. He is convinced that every young state, such as Ukraine, must pass the temptation of authoritarianism. Although there is practically no political life in the country now, according to the historian, Ukrainian society is already looking for a new leader. "It no longer wants Zelensky, but is ready to tolerate him until the war is over. Because it understands that you cannot change the president during the war," says Hrytsak. Any power tends towards authoritarianism. The current president and his inner circle are no exception. But the historian has great doubts about the high chances of establishing "green authoritarianism". Certain safeguards against such a turn were laid down by Ukrainian history itself.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks with Yaroslav Hrytsak about the temptation of authoritarianism, why he does not like to talk about historical memory, the moment of divergence of the development trajectories of Russia and Ukraine, a new ethnic furnace in the middle of the country and what can radically solve the security issue of Ukraine.
Episode 28: How to Make Life Difficult for War Criminals
Ibrahim Olabi is a British lawyer of Syrian origin. He had always intended to pursue a career in commercial law. However, as Olabi says, fate had other plans. The war in Syria broke out in 2011. He immediately switched gears to studying criminal law and human rights advocacy in order to help Syrians. This particular conflict has become his life's work for the past decade. In his legal work, he has almost exclusively focused on this war. He has only made an exception for Ukraine since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion. "What Russia is trying to do in Ukraine, it has already done in Syria," Olabi is convinced, seeing the same warfighting strategy on the part of the Kremlin. He heads the legal team of the war crimes documentation initiative The Reckoning Project. In April 2024, the project team and a witness from Ukraine filed a criminal complaint for torture by the Russians with the Federal Court of Argentina.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk speaks with Ibrahim Olabi about the choice of Argentina as the venue for the lawsuit, about Russia's identical "playbook" for waging war, how Syrians are trying to achieve justice, and how to make life difficult for war criminals.
Original audio
Episode 27: Olga Onuсh on the Zelensky effect, its connection to Ukrainian identity, and what the full scale war has changed
Olga Onuch is a British scientist, researcher, and professor of comparative and Ukrainian political science at the University of Manchester. In mid-May 2024, her book "The Zelensky Effect," which she co-authored with American researcher Henry Hale, will be published in Ukrainian. In particular, the authors analyze the speeches of President Volodymyr Zelensky, the show "Kvartal 95", and even the series "Servant of the People." The book has a section dedicated to the current president of Ukraine, but this is not the key thing, says the author Olga Onuch. First and foremost, they investigated the modern civic Ukrainian identity of the so-called generation of independence. It was this that shaped not only Zelensky, but also other Ukrainians.
Journalist Angelina Kariakina talks to Olga Onuch about the Zelensky Effect, the most important identity of Ukrainians since the 1990s, and what Putin, some Galicians, and most of the world have failed to understand about Ukrainians.
Episode 26: Why Latin America's Support for Ukraine is Weak and What Does the US Have to Do with It? Denise Dresser explains
Denise Dresser is a renowned Mexican political analyst, columnist, and professor. She has been the target of over 100 attacks by Mexico's current president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, in his daily morning speeches for her criticism of the government's actions. He was also deeply disappointed by her visit to Ukraine in 2023.
Dresser observes that many Latin American presidents are playing geopolitical games or trying to figure out what they can gain from supporting Ukraine or maintaining a perceived neutrality. However, Latin American societies are not pro-Russian, despite Russian propaganda and the increasing number of Russian diplomats in these countries.
In her view, if Mexico, which is currently experiencing a democratic backsliding, were to return to authoritarianism, the biggest geopolitical beneficiary would be Russia. "It is in their interest to see a more authoritarian Mexico that embodies a narco-state with a large number of criminals. This would force the Americans to deal with another open front and another international conflict, and a conflict right on their borders," the professor says.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with Denise Dresser about the increase of Russian influence in Mexico, attitudes towards Ukraine, drug cartel violence, how Mexico has become a political piñata in American politics, and her personal "3 A's" strategy that guides her through life.
This podcast is supported by American people through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in the framework of the Human Rights in Action Program implemented by Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union.
Original audio
Episode 25: I can't walk and shoot at Russian forces in Kharkiv or Luhansk region because of my age. But if I could, I would do it - Adam Michnik
Adam Michnik, a Polish journalist, dissident, and one of the leaders of the Solidarity movement, continues to serve as the editor-in-chief of the Polish newspaper "Gazeta Wyborcza" at the age of 77. For many years, he has called himself an anti-Soviet Russophile. After the start of Russia's war in Ukraine, Michnik declared that he had become an anti-Putin Russophile.
The dissident argues that not every Russian is Putin's soldier, but each of them will bear a certain moral responsibility for the war in Ukraine. In his opinion, the hatred of Russian emigrants towards Putin is a potential for a conversation about the future. "On the other hand, I understand those Ukrainians who say that 'a good Russian is a dead Russian.' I do not agree with them, but I understand them," says Adam Michnik.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks to him about Ukrainian-Polish relations and the Polish rise at the expense of the Ukrainians, the Russian opposition and the responsibility of nations for the war, about Putin as a curse and his father's testament to always protect Ukraine.
Episode 24: A drama of the missing people is that no one saw their death - Norma Morandini
"The drama of the missing people is that no one saw their death," says Norma Morandini, an Argentine writer, journalist, and politician. During the military dictatorship, her 20-year-old brother Nestor and sister Cristina were abducted in Buenos Aires in 1977. Norma immediately left Argentina. She returned to her homeland only in the mid-1980s. Already as a journalist, she wrote materials from the famous trial of the military junta. At the court hearings during her testimony about torture and murder, she never imagined her brother and sister in the place of the tortured. Such was the protective mechanism of her psyche. Much later, she learned that her relatives had ended up in ESMA - a secret torture prison in the building of the former school of mechanics of the Argentine Navy. Their tortured bodies were sent on so-called "death flights" - their bodies were thrown from the plane into the sea. Norma did not tell her mother about the fate of her kidnapped brother and sister. However, it turned out that her mother knew about it, but she also did not tell her relatives about it.
Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk talks to Morandini about the silence of love, her own path to healing, about the politicization of the memory of the events during the rule of the military junta, the phenomenon of memory and what can become more important than a court verdict in cases of the missing.
The publication was made possible, in particular, with the support of the United States Agency for International Development USAID - US Agency for International Development within the framework of the "Human Rights in Action" project, which is implemented by the Ukrainian Helsinki Union on Human Rights.
Episode 23: Svitlana Osipchuk on the Museum of War Childhood and How War is Integrated into the Lives of Children in Ukraine
The Museum of War Childhood has collected over 400 testimonies about the lives of children during the war in Ukraine. The idea of opening such a museum belongs to a Sarajevo resident, Jasminko Halilović, who as a young child survived the siege of the capital of Bosnia and Herzegovina during the Balkan Wars in the 1990s. Initially, he and his team focused on collecting stories and exhibits about the war childhood of their fellow citizens. Later, they expanded, and their archive now contains narratives and items from more than 20 wars from different countries around the world. The first testimonies of Ukrainian children were collected in 2018. Two years later, an office with a separate team of researchers was established in Kyiv. The museum does not yet have its own premises for a permanent exhibition. They arrange to exhibit their items with other institutions, explains Svitlana Osipchuk, the director of the Museum of War Childhood.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina speaks with Svitlana Osipchuk about the impact of war on Ukrainian children, its normalization in their lives, the Holocaust, films about Bucha, and what is happening with the historical memory of Ukrainians.
Episode 22: How to Jail a Military Junta? Insights from an Argentine Judge
After seizing power, the military ruled Argentina for seven years until 1983. They staged a reign of terror during which approximately 30,000 Argentinians were killed or disappeared. Many were tortured, and some were subjected to so-called "death flights" where they were dropped from planes into the Atlantic Ocean. Children of the victims were abducted and given to other families for upbringing. In 1984, a report titled "Nunca Más" (Never Again) was published, documenting the crimes of the military junta. By April 1985, Argentina began an unprecedented trial of the country's former military leaders. Over 800 witnesses testified in court. Among the judges was Ricardo Gil Lavedra.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with Gil Lavedra about the trial itself, what was needed for him to pass judgment on the military junta, whether the military officials admitted their guilt, and his nightmares following the testimonies of the victims.
This podcast is supported by American people through the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in the framework of the Human Rights in Action Program implemented by Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union.
Episode 21: I'm a Historian and Can't Cancel Anyone — Marci Shore
Marci Shore teaches intellectual history at Yale University. Alongside her husband, Timothy Snyder, Marci has long been persuading leaders in various countries to provide assistance to Ukraine during the war with Russia. She calls this turn in her life an irony of fate. Shore's ancestors were victims of Jewish pogroms in Ukraine after World War I. Growing up in the US, Marci was part of a community where anything German was anathema. She herself has been a pacifist since her teenage years and never understood weapons. "Now, as a middle-aged Jewish mother, when I come to the Germans and beg them to immediately send lethal weapons to the Ukrainians — it's not a role I could ever have imagined myself in," the historian jokes.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina speaks with Marci Shore about intellectual bravery in a post-truth world, about forgiveness and her fascination with philosopher Hannah Arendt, why a historian cannot cancel the Nazis, about the crisis of subjectivity in Russia, and why the fate of the world now depends on the Ukrainians.
The original audio
Episode 20: Empire Above All. How Russia Re-Educates Ukrainians in Occupied Territories
Yaroslava Barbieri, a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Birmingham, studies the mechanisms of undermining Ukrainian sovereignty by Russia. Since 2014, the aggressor state has primarily focused its efforts on the militarization and indoctrination of children in the occupied parts of Donbas and Crimea. Through patriotic education programs, the "Yunarmiya" (Youth Army), meetings with Russian soldiers, veterans, and members of the Wagner Group PMC, they attempt to impose Russian values on them. Specifically, the idea that the highest form of existence for an individual is to sacrifice oneself for the state's interests. In doing so, Russia openly steals Ukrainian children for the needs of its empire.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina speaks with Yaroslava Barbieri about the difference in values between Ukrainians and Russians, the paradox of the Kremlin's reintegration of occupied territories, the increase in violence from the invaders due to resistance in the South, and what she learned from her grandmother, the poet Lina Kostenko.
Episode 19: Timothy Garton Ash on the Myth of Russian Invincibility, War as the Norm, and Ukraine as Europe's Mirror
Timothy Garton Ash is a British historian, journalist, and author, regarded as one of the foremost researchers on the history of contemporary Europe and its transformation over the last forty years. His latest book, "Homelands: A Personal History of Europe," is set to be released in Ukrainian in May. He notes that after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, Europeans gained their freedom relatively peacefully and easily over the following years. "People began to deceive themselves into thinking that freedom is a process that happens automatically. But freedom is not a process; it is always a struggle," Garton Ash insists.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with the historian about the will to freedom, why a peaceful Europe is not the norm from a historical perspective, the myth of Russian invincibility, various views on ending the war in Ukraine, and why Garton Ash installed an air raid alert app for Ukraine on his phone.
The original audio
Episode 18: The Transfer of Crimea to Ukraine Was Its Salvation, Not a Mistake or Khrushchev's Gift — Rory Finnin
Professor Rory Finnin initiated the Ukrainian Studies program at Cambridge University in 2008. Finnin himself, a scholar of literature, explores the interaction of culture and national identity in Ukraine. He pays special attention to Crimea and Crimean Tatar literature. Rory Finnin says that by viewing the peninsula's history through a Russian lens, Western scholars previously did not want to hear about it as the history of Crimea itself, of the Crimean Tatars, and Ukrainians. "Now they have changed and would like to hear such a story, but it is already too late," says the professor. Crimea is an extension of mainland Ukraine, the researcher is convinced. The scholar warned analysts and foreign politicians that Russia cannot take the peninsula without the south of Ukraine and will not stop there.
Journalist Natalia Humenyuk talks with Finnin about Shevchenko as a modern writer, how Western scholars remain in the realm of swan lakes, about settler colonialism, and why Crimea was never Khrushchev's gift to Ukraine.
Episode 17: We must forget about Germany's sentiment towards Russia, their friendship has come to an end — Kateryna Mishchenko
Essayist, publisher, translator, and art researcher Kateryna Mishchenko has been living in Germany since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. She says that the history of Ukraine and Germany is shared. Germans are well aware of various geographical locations in Ukraine. For example, Bakhmut, which they know from the history of World War II and the diaries of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers who occupied what was then the Soviet Artemivsk in the early '40s. "The German 'Never again' and the German anti-fascist agenda today must work in Ukraine in the sense that Germany should help Ukraine in its fight against Russia, which has become a fascist state," Mishchenko believes.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina talks with Kateryna Mishchenko about Germany's sentiment towards Russia, what Germans ask about Ukraine, why "resistance" is a better word than "war," about pragmatic unity, and how modern Europe is rethinking itself.
Episode 16: If You Get Tired of the Russian War in Ukraine, You'll Be Killed — Oleksandra Matviichuk
Receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in 2022 has led to additional work, says the head of the Center for Civil Liberties, Oleksandra Matviichuk. Missions, meetings, conferences, during which she tried to convince, among others, businesses that remained in Russia, that supporting a misanthropic regime cannot save anyone. Matviichuk also says that the modern political class, including democrats, is afflicted with cynicism. "This cynicism and what they call realpolitik didn't work in the last century, it didn't prevent World War II and it won't work now," she is convinced. "You might be able to get tired of the Russian war in Ukraine in Berlin or Washington, but in Ukraine, if you get tired, you'll be killed."
Natalia Humenyuk and Angelina Kariakina talk with Oleksandra Matviichuk about the internal divisions within Ukrainian society, what the victory in the war depends on, and why focusing on one's own pain is selfish.
Episode 15: Germans bear responsibility for Russian successes in this war — Rebecca Harms
Rebecca Harms went from being a documentary filmmaker and an anti-nuclear and anti-war activist to becoming a Member of the European Parliament for the German party "Alliance 90/The Greens". As a politician, Harms realized that exclusively peaceful resolutions to military conflicts sometimes do not work. Her position changed due to the war in former Yugoslavia. The Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine, where negotiations only gave the Kremlin more time to capture new territories, ultimately convinced her of this. During her time as an MEP in Brussels, she supported Ukraine during both Maidans in 2004 and 2014. For her pro-Ukrainian stance, Russia declared Harms persona non grata in the fall of 2014. Currently, Rebecca is not in power, but she continues to support Ukraine. At the same time, she criticizes German policy towards Russia. Rebecca Harms is convinced that the Germans, through their diplomacy, gave Russia time to prepare for a major war in Ukraine.
Natalia Gumenyuk talks to her about Germany's share in the Russian successes in the war, Merkel's mistake, changes in her views and beliefs after starting her political career, and Ukraine's path to the EU.
The original audio
Episode 14: Far Less Justice from International Tribunals Than They Promise — Wayne Jordash
Royal Barrister Wayne Jordash came to Ukraine in 2015 and has been helping to investigate Russia's crimes against Ukraine. An international lawyer with many years of experience, he has participated in several international tribunals — in Rwanda and the Special Court for Sierra Leone. There, he did not side with the prosecution. Jordash's defendants were accused of committing war crimes. Some of his clients were acquitted, like one of the mayors in Rwanda. Others, for example, Issa Sesay, an officer of the Revolutionary United Front in Sierra Leone, were found guilty after a six-year trial. He was sentenced to 52 years in prison. After several decades of working in the field of international humanitarian law, Wayne Jordash has become skeptical of international tribunals. He says they deliver far less justice than they promise.
Natalia Gumenyuk speaks with Jordash about the genocide of the nation in Ukraine, disillusionment with the International Criminal Court, the main defense line for war criminals, and the idea of justice as a process.
The original audio
Episode 13: Russia Conducts a Major Cultural Crusade in the Occupied Territories of
Ukraine — Kostiantyn Akinsha
Kostiantyn Akinsha is an art historian, exhibition curator, and researcher of the history of forgeries. In particular, he has dealt with issues of restitution, returning art treasures to Holocaust victims, and lost cultural heritage. A few weeks before the start of the full-scale invasion, he wrote about the danger to architectural monuments and Ukrainian museums. Akinsha called for the immediate evacuation of art treasures. He became a co-organizer of an exhibition on Ukrainian modernism of the 1900s-1930s. In the fall of 2022, about 70 works by Ukrainian avant-garde artists were transported under missile attacks to exhibit them in Europe and preserve them. The exhibition "In the Epicenter of the Storm: Ukrainian Modernism, 1900–1930" received over a million mentions in global media.
Natalia Gumenyuk talks with Kostiantyn Akinsha about Europe discovering Ukrainian modernism, Russia's cultural expansion in the occupied territories, Pushkin monuments as markers of Russian presence, and the fight against Russian instrumentalization of culture.
Episode 12: Peter Pomerantsev on the lessons of a propagandist who outsmarted Hitler and the competition to understand the audience
British writer and journalist Peter Pomerantsev has been exploring propaganda and disinformation for several decades. He argues that authoritarian propaganda gives people a sense of being part of something big and strong, allowing them to demean others. In this case, it's not about truth or falsehood at all. Propaganda starts with a deep understanding of the audience and their emotional needs and how they can be manipulated.
In March 2024, Pomerantsev's new book about the British journalist and propagandist Sefton Delmer is released. Delmer worked with German propaganda during World War II by launching dozens of radio stations with huge coverage and popularity in Germany.
Angelina Kariakina speaks with Peter Pomerantsev about how those radio stations worked, what lessons Ukraine can learn from Sefton Delmer in the war against Russia, and the competition to better understand the audience.
Episode 11: What people don't understand about mongols, forgetting Chinggis Khan, and soviet past in modern Mongolia
In the quest for an answer to the question "who are we," Ukraine is significantly ahead of Mongolia. This is stated by Mongolian media personality and public opinion leader Tsogtbilguundari Khishigbat. For instance, in a country that was a satellite of the USSR, many cities, villages, and provinces still bear the names of Mongolian Soviet leaders. In the capital, Ulan Bator, one of the districts is still named "Zhukov" in honor of the Soviet general. During the influence of the USSR, Mongolia lost its history and self-identity. Even mentioning the name of the Khan of the Mongol Empire, Chinggis Khan, aloud was forbidden. Now the country is trying to reclaim its past and dispel.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk discusses with Tsogtbilguundari the contemporary influence of Russia and China on Mongolia, the local perception of Russian aggression, as mentioned by President Zelensky recalling his childhood in Mongolia, and the global myths regarding nomadic civilization.
The original audio
Episode 10: Galin Stoev on the Tribunal against Putin on Stage and Why Bulgarian Actors Feared "Novichok"
In September 2023, the premiere of the play "The Hague" took place in the capital of Bulgaria, Sofia. The play, written by Ukrainian playwright and documentarian Sasha Denisova, revolves around an orphan girl from Mariupol who imagines a tribunal against Putin. Galin Stoev, a director who has worked abroad for many years and is currently the artistic director of the National Theater in Toulouse, France, staged the play at the National Theater of Bulgaria. When he saw the production in Poland, he immediately decided that he must stage it in his native Bulgaria. Part of the country's population is still influenced by Russian propaganda and supports Putin.
The Bulgarian government attended the play's premiere, the 850-seat hall was packed, and organizers feared provocations from pro-Russian parties. The actor playing the role of Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev refused to participate before the premiere. He believed he was being watched and feared being poisoned with "Novichok." Despite concerns, the play in Sofia continues with full houses.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks with director Galin Stoev about the impact of the conflict with his parents on the production regarding the war in Ukraine, how "The Hague" changed the actors of the National Theater of Bulgaria, the responsibility of the "collective Putin," combining the comedic and tragic elements in the play, and why Stoyev currently avoids reading Russian literature.
The original audio
Episode 9: Putin's Playbook: How the Russian Dictator Conducts Wars? Parallels with Chechnya, Syria, and Ukraine
This is a conversation in English with American journalist and writer Janine di Giovanni, who has worked in conflict zones for 30 years. She reported from Sarajevo and Grozny during the sieges, Rwanda, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, South Sudan. With the onset of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, di Giovanni, along with researcher Peter Pomerantsev and journalist Natalia Humeniuk, founded The Reckoning Project. It is a project documenting war crimes committed by the Russian regular army.
Di Giovanni has witnessed several of Putin's wars, notably in Chechnya, Syria, and Ukraine. She asserts that the Russian dictator always wages war exclusively against civilians, making it impossible to engage with him on moral grounds. Journalist Angelina Karyakina talks to di Giovanni about Putin's "playbook" for conducting war, how to prevent armed conflicts, justice as a means to heal the wounds of war crime witnesses, and Ukraine as a barrier to protecting democracy worldwide.
The original audio
Episode 8: How to Win Indonesia to Ukraine's Side, a Country with the Policy of "Zero Enemies, Thousand Friends"
TV host and writer from Indonesia, Desi Anwar, perceived Russia's war against Ukraine as Russia's struggle against the West before arriving in Kyiv. However, after a week in Ukraine, she changed her perspective and identified the Ukrainian fight with the slogan "Freedom or Death." This phrase is well-known among adults and children in her country. Indonesia gained independence only in 1945, having been a colony of the Netherlands for over 300 years and occupied by Japan during World War II. Anwar advises consistently emphasizing on all platforms that Ukraine is fighting against Russia for its independence and the protection of national identity. Such a message will be clearly understood in one of the largest countries in Asia, Indonesia.
Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk discusses with Desi Anwar the perception of Russia's war against Ukraine in Global South countries, the Jakarta principle of "zero enemies, thousand friends" in international politics, Indonesia's colonial past, Asian pragmatism, and why democracy is not the answer to all questions.
The original audio
Episode 7: Jonathan Littell on Russian Violence, Putin's Conquest of Chechnya, and Ukraine's Chances for Victory
Jonathan Littell well known in Ukraine as the author of the historical novel "Les Bienveillantes" ("The Kindly Ones"). It is written from the perspective of a fictional SS officer recounting events on the Eastern Front during World War II and his involvement in the Holocaust, including the massacres of Jews at Babyn Yar. The novel sparked intense discussions, and it was translated into Ukrainian only 15 years after its release. Littell himself has worked in humanitarian missions during armed conflicts in Chechnya, Syria, and has witnessed numerous war crimes. Currently, he is preparing to publish his new book, including a section on war crimes in Bucha.
Journalist Angelina Kariakina spoke with the writer about what contributed to Putin's success in the 90s in Chechnya, the apathy of the Russian intellectuals and its responsibility, effective Western pressure methods on Russia, whether the place of Russian culture in the global context needs to be reconsidered, and whether Russians understand the Ukrainians' struggle against Russia as an empire, not just against Putin's regime.
The original audio
Episode 6: The Management of Death. Digital democracies researcher Svitlana Matviyenko explains how Russia implements its necropolitics through fear, terror, and propaganda
Svitlana Matviyenko is a researcher and lecturer at the School of Communications at the Institute of Digital Democracies at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver. In addition to studying media and cyber warfare, she is interested in the phenomenon of war pollution. She investigates how wars impact people and the environment and how territories and societies recover from it in the long run. Matviyenko is cautious about the concept of the "end of war." It is created in horizontal thinking, especially regarding territories and de-occupation. However, war, through trauma, reparations, and pollution, will persist for a long time in landscapes, society, and individuals. Therefore, she suggests thinking about the end of war vertically, even though it is a more painful and pessimistic concept, where its conclusion is altogether questionable.
Journalist Angelina Karyakina discusses with Svitlana Matviyenko the slow violence of war, Russia's nuclear colonialism, the Kremlin's management of death, and propaganda as part of the environment of terror.
Episode 5: Patriarch Kirill and Putin's Union - Marriage of Convenience - Kyrylo Hovorun
Archimandrite, philosopher, and Ukrainian theologian Kyrylo Hovorun is a person of encyclopedic knowledge. He worked for ten years in the Moscow Eparchy of the Russian Orthodox Church and was closely acquainted with Patriarch Kirill (Gundyaev). He warned Patriarch Kirill about the danger of the "Russian world" ideology, which he equated with Nazism, fascism, and communism. In 2012, Hovorun resigned, while Patriarch Kirill became one of the main inspirers of the war in Ukraine.
Journalist Natalia Humeniuk speaks with Archimandrite about how Patriarch Kirill of the Russian Orthodox Church became the leader of the "Russian world," why Hovorun calls this ideology "fascism 3.0," how to understand the statements of Pope Francis, and the pontiff's mistakes in communicating about Ukraine. They also discuss how to view the processes in the religious life of Ukraine after the state received the Tomos in 2019.
Episode 4: "We should think not just about helping Ukraine, but about how to defeat Russia – Anne Applebaum
The independent Ukraine poses an existential threat to Vladimir Putin. Joseph Stalin perceived it in the same way, made the Holodomor in the 1930s as a means to subdue and Sovietize Ukraine. This fear unites two dictators, asserts journalist, historian, and Pulitzer Prize laureate Anne Applebaum. In the 21st century, Putin also employs food and hunger as weapons of war. Therefore, it is time for allies to focus not only on providing assistance to Ukraine but also on how to defeat Russia, according to the researcher. Journalist Angelina Karyakina speaks with Anne Applebaum about what is needed to end the war, a new approach to violence during armed conflicts, why Volodymyr Zelensky should not publicly criticize allies, and how the war in Ukraine has become a pawn in American political struggles."
The original audio
Episode 3: Leopoldo Lopez on the Ukrainian Maidan - the most successful revolution of the 21st century. Why didn't it succeed in others?
The Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine is the only successful example in the world of a transition to stable democracy in the 21st century. This is what one of the opposition leaders of Venezuela, Leopoldo Lopez, says. After suppressing protests against the regime of Nicolas Maduro, years of imprisonment in a military prison, house arrest, hiding in the territory of the Spanish embassy, and then escaping from Venezuela, the politician does not give up. He unites with activists from different countries to resist global autocracies. Lopez is confident that Ukraine's victory over Russia is also the key to bringing democracy back to their countries. Journalist Natalia Gumenyuk talks to Leopoldo Lopez about why other revolutions in the world were unsuccessful, why autocrats will never switch to the side of democracy, and what he learned in Kyiv.
The original audio
Episode 2: Serhiy Plokhii on the Era of China, Ukrainian History, and the Inevitability of Nuclear Surrender
Historian Serhiy Plokhii began working on his new book, "Russian-Ukrainian War: The Return of History," just a few weeks after the start of the full-scale invasion. In May 2023, it was published in the United States, and a few months later in Ukraine. Plokhy confesses that working on the book not only allowed him to understand the war but also emotionally experience it. For the first time since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the historian visited Ukraine at the end of August to see the changes in the country with his own eyes. Journalist Natalia Humeniuk speaks with Serhiy Plokhii about empires, the era of China, the history of the Ukrainian state, a new type of nuclear terrorism from Russia, and why it is difficult for modern Ukrainians to comprehend the inevitability of surrendering nuclear weapons.
Episode 1: Snyder on Fascist Russia, Genocide, Kremlin's Nuclear Bluff, and Ukrainian Understanding of Freedom
This is a conversation with American historian Timothy Snyder, whose books and lectures are well-known worldwide. He asserts that Russia is currently committing genocide against Ukrainians. Host Natalia Humeniuk talks to Snyder about how Russia's goals are evolving during the current war, why the contemporary Putin regime is fascist, and why the Kremlin's threats of nuclear weapons are a bluff. In this episode, the intellectual explains his interest in the history and modern culture of Ukraine, what he has learned about freedom from Ukrainians, and what can be considered Ukraine's ultimate victory over Russia.
The original audio
Episode 0: Natalya and Angelina talk about what and who the podcast will be about
World thinkers and intellectuals are now looking in Ukraine for physical confirmation that democracy and freedom matter. Hosts Natalya Gumenyuk and Angelina Karyakina talk about why they start this podcast, about the world's attempts to understand why Ukrainians defend their country, their motivation in the war and their choice between good and evil. What can be interesting conversations for Ukrainians themselves, what is it like to live in a great war, what is it like to fight against the empire and how can Ukraine build its identity not only around the war
Natalia Gumenyuk is a journalist and correspondent specializing in international events and conflict coverage. She is a co-founder and executive director of the Public Interest Journalism Lab. Natalia is also a co-founder, editor, and lead journalist at The Reckoning Project. She is the author of several documentary films and books, including "Lost Island: Stories from Occupied Crimea" and "Maidan Tahrir: In Search of the Lost Revolution." Natalia curated focal theme of the 2023 Book Arsenal, "When Everything Matters." She regularly contributes to publications such as The Guardian, The Washington Post, The Rolling Stone, Die Zeit, and The Atlantic. She was a co-founder and led Hromadske TV and Hromadske International for 5 years and is currently a member of the Board. In 2022, she received the international Free Media Awards for her coverage of the war in Russia against Ukraine.
Angelina Karyakina is a journalist and media manager. She is a co-founder of Public Interest Journalism Laboratory. Angelina also is an editor and author for The Reckoning Project's films. She covered the Revolution of Dignity and the Russian aggression in Eastern Ukraine for Euronews. She graduated from the directorial workshop of Serhiy Bukovsky. In 2015, she joined Hromadske as a journalist and host. Angelina is the author of a series of documentary films titled "In the Footsteps of the Revolution," which explores events on Maidan and the case of Sentsov-Kolchenko, titled "A Journey Halfway Across the Earth." She worked as the chief editor of Hromadske for three years. From 2020 to 2022, she was involved in creating the multimedia news service of Suspilne as the chief editor and later as the chief producer of news programming.